The Primer: A conversation between Marlena Myles and Morgan Thorson
Part interview and part conversation, animator Marlena Myles and dancemaker Morgan Thorson talk about the upcoming premiere of Marlena’s new work, Innerworld Prism, which opens The Great Northern January 27.
Morgan Thorson (MT): Is there anything you would like to say about your new animation, Innerworld Prism?
Marlena Myles (MM): The work will be an exploration of the different dimensions inside of people especially during the past year—the difficulty that we all went through, being alone. I guess a lot of people weren't used to having to feel so distant from each other. And so, the piece explores the different levels that we have to protect our inner selves. It’s similar to the way a prism splits white light into a rainbow of different forms of light. That's what the title is referring to, which is the same as how we are split on the inside and how those divisions come together to form who we are.
MT: That's an incredibly rich metaphor. I read the description about the piece and I was immediately taken by your writing and the content. You mention darkness. Can you talk about what darkness means to you? In this context and others?
MM: The piece is intended to be projected and watched at the festival at night. So, you are in darkness yourself to come to this event. I think I want to form connections with the animation even though it's digital and doesn't exist. It is pixels, so there’s space to be who you really are, as you're standing there. There's no audio or anything. I have to rely strongly on the visuals to connect through the dark. I mean that's the challenge for me. I’m also thinking, because it's premiering here, I want to create an environment that functions like a theater. The condition of nighttime is connecting everyone.
MT: How did you approach creating this work knowing that it was going to be projected outside?
MM: If the work is on a computer screen or a phone, the details will be sharpened, it will be smooth, there will be no texture. Because it's being projected, the lens of the projector may not be able to focus the way animation is on a phone. So, I have to keep in mind not to add excessive details, to make a mixture that won’t be blurry. To create clarity is the challenge with making the images big. The opportunity is being able to project something that we usually see as tiny and make that really big. That will change and awaken your ability to perceive something.
MT: I am curious about the dynamics of your materials; your animation, architecture, and the location. How did you choose the sites for your projections?
MM: We have chosen several places in Minneapolis and Saint Paul. Outside of opening night at Highlight Tower in NE, the events are pop-ups and might require a guerilla-like approach.
A lot of my art is very smooth. And I wait until it's printed on a surface to give texture to the images. When it's put onto something that we can actually touch, like printed on a canvas, it picks up the canvas texture. So, when it’s projected on a brick building, we'll be able to see that texture there. I don't want to create artificial texture. I want the work to intermingle with whatever environment that it is going to be materialized upon.
MT: That's beautiful. I did have a chance to watch a couple of your other pieces on your website. You made a comment about a glitch effect in The Sound of Flowers Dying that represents the way humans are corrupted away from nature. Is there a way that you're using technology to address the subject that you're thinking about in this new work?
MM: I try not to just add a random effect because it looks cool. I feel like some people do that. If I'm adding a glitch effect, I want to think about why and how it might in tie into that piece. In Flowers I was addressing how some say technology disconnects us. For me, I think digital art can be used to connect people. A lot of people think we spend too much time online and we don't spend enough time with face-to-face interaction, but I think technology can be used so that people find their place in the world of computers and internet. People can find other people with similar interests. They may not be able to find those people in their immediate location. I also understand people who see it as a wall that separates humanity, but there's a lot of things that keep us from understanding each other and it's not just technology.
With this new piece there are some glitch effects, or other kinds of transitions to move it along and interrupt the viewer. A lot of animations that we watch today are done digitally. Because they are no longer drawn by hand, you lose those mistakes that a human being could make by hand. With digital art you have the ability to edit, devise and smooth things out and sometimes I like to interrupt that flow so that it doesn’t feel so automated for the viewer.
MT: Yes, that effect re-engaged me completely. It brought my mind and body forward.
MM: I think the human mind wants to get used to things and it stops paying attention. It wants to be lazy. So, you can jar it a little bit and it will start listening to the beat again, or it will notice itself watching. I try to put things in there to re-awaken the mind. Sensory overload happens if you don't do these things. And if it does, it can be really hard to function. I know some people have trouble turning off their mind from noticing everything. Some say that it is a problem, but it can also be a strength. From every weakness and strength, depending on how you use them, you can draw some sort of power.
MT: Are you usually thinking that the viewer is alone when they experience your work, and will you talk about shadows?
MM: I think we are ultimately alone in the world you see and in the world that you create in your mind. They are your own creations. Your perspective is how the universe is to you. Nobody has the same view, so when it comes to things like shadows, I think there's something that is inherent in us, like from my ancestors, from the primitive evolution days, like going back a million years. Human beings don't have good eyesight at night, and so, they are staring into the darkness. That's when people started to make up stories. Sitting around the campfire in the flickering light—that inspired their own perspective of the universe. There are all these creation stories of people coming from caves or finding the light and what that reveals to them. But also what they see in the darkness and what they're able to make up on their own. That’s why you see a lot of cave paintings. What's the draw to paint these things in a place that will always be dark? Is it because it's based on those stories that people will tell in the darkness at night? So, I think about shadows and the way we see into them and I try to figure out what they mean because we don't have a clear view. It just brings us back to connecting to nature. You're creating your own world because it’s your own perspective. How you relate to it is important. I can understand that from a scientific perspective, but I think it all comes back to trying to understand nature the best you can, and maybe that's through art and stories. It also comes from a relationship to darkness and light because they create the universe for us.
MT: You mentioned that you're a self-taught artist. Would you talk about that?
MM: Growing up I was always teaching myself things and in fourth grade, I was already doing algebra. Teachers would bring me the seventh, eighth, ninth grade math books, rather than push me ahead. So, I would do the assignments. And I would go along until I made some errors and then ask the teacher for help. Then I would go back to teaching myself again. I was encouraged to teach myself things. Online today with youtube university, anything you need to learn how to fix, you can find. I think being self-taught especially in digital art and digital things is important. New programs come out all the time and by the time you're finishing school for these things, what you learned is probably five years out of date? Now, we have to have that self-taught ambition as a digital artist or anyone working in technology. Otherwise you just fall behind and you're not going to find any joy in it. And so, if you do find joy in teaching yourself things, digital art and that go hand in hand.
MT: I'm so glad you brought up the joy of math. When I was a kid, math was the only thing I could relate to; where I could see and understand patterns. I think it's one of the reasons I started to make dances.
“When I get error messages, I find a way to create art from that. I essentially find a way to break the program and that’s something new I can use, something that no one has seen.”
MM: I don't know why people hate math. It’s like black magic. You can do a lot of things with it. You can manipulate the universe in a way that you can't without that language—by being able to dictate it into variables.
MT: Yes, it is so concrete, so solid. A 3 is a 3, and with that stability you can create formulas.
MM: Once you get the bigger forms of math like the rotational velocity of planets then you can start to put different numbers into those formulas and you will see how that changes things. I use illustrator which is a math-based program. When I get error messages, I find a way to create art from that. I essentially find a way to break the program and that's something new I can use, something that no one has seen. People ask me how I make my animal spirits. They started with the glitch. You don't want a computer to take your job away from you. You have to be more creative than a computer. With a new way of thinking you might able to invent calculus so that you can study the stars like Isaac Newton. Who thinks of that? It's someone who's trying to find an error to exploit to create something new. I feel like math isn't taught as a creative art form, and it should be. It has solid rules. Once you learn those rules, like music or even moving, you can learn to break the rules and understand why you're breaking them. Otherwise, you are just wandering.
MT: I’d like to ask one more question. In your description of Innerworld you mention “reverie of ourselves to cherish and explore.” Do you feel like there's some optimism for you in this piece around people coming together?
MM: I think the festival itself is a sign that things might go back to normal at some point because it seems like it just keeps getting worse in this country. They say that things might not be back to normal until the fall and that’s eight months away. So, the festival in the winter is a break from that. Winter is normally our time for darkness because you don't go outside very much because it is cold. With this whole pandemic, even in the wintertime, I see people walking outside. I don't see people getting stuck in traffic anymore or worrying about their morning drive in the snow. That's not on people's minds anymore. So, I think there is some kind of positivity in that; you're not running on artificial human time because there's an economic purpose for running around. Natural time, when the sun is up and when the sun is down—we pay attention to that more than we do clocking into work. To me that’s positive because we have to battle with climate change, because that is the next thing. I think going through this together will give us a better chance of reconnecting and understanding that we need to save this planet.
Marlena Myles is a self-taught Native American (Spirit Lake Dakota, Mohegan, Muscogee) artist located in St. Paul, Minnesota. She has gained recognition as being one of the few Dakota women creating digital art including fabric patterns, animations and illustrations to bring modernity to indigenous history, languages and oral traditions. Growing up on her traditional Dakota homelands here in the Twin Cities, she enjoys using her artwork to teach Minnesotans of all backgrounds the indigenous history of this place we call home.
From Morgan Thorson: As a white, queer dance artist, my practice is holding the complexity of moving and dancing my body. Within the breaks and muddle of feeling, sensation and presence, I examine notions of power, authorship and the ways the viewer participates in the creation of the work. As a response to training in ballet and improvisation, my materials collide, bringing about unforeseen forces of communication, perception and understanding. I resolve to make visible and physical those things that are not such as emotions, labor, endurance, self-loathing, and uncertainty with the understanding that failure may be waiting for us.
Some honors include: SIM Residency ICELAND (2021), MacDowell Artist Colony Fellow (2018, 2012), Doris Duke Performing Artist Award (2016), United States Artist (2011), Guggenheim (2010), and McKnight (2009, 2002) Fellowships; residency support from Jacobs Pillow (2017), and The Maggie Allesee National Center for Choreography (2016, 2011, 2009); and the Sage Award for Outstanding Choreography (Faker 2007, Docudrama, 2008). In 2015, my work was part of Local Time, a three-month exhibition, at the Weisman Art Museum.
Some presentations/commissions include: On The Boards/BASE (2019); Walker Art Center (2018, 2010, 2006); Maui Arts and Culture Center (2018); PICA and Portland Art Museum (2016); PS 122 (2015, 2010); COIL (2009, 2007); INOVA (2015); and Institute of Contemporary Art, Boston (2008).